I started out reading fan fic on other web sites and an author mentioned also posting on this site at the end a chapter. I have since gone A-Z and read all the completed fics here. (I have a very hard time waiting for updates to read ongoing fics, but I can't stop reading Keeping Christmas.) Just last week I went to one of those other sites and couldn't finish more than one fic becuase the grammer and spelling was horrendous! (I will never stray again. ha ha) Anyway, I just wanted to say THANK YOU to all who make this site what it is -- Terriffic.

dgobsessed @ Dec 07, 2006 01:17 pm

The death penalty for idiot spammers? Sign me up for that plan! (not that I'm a spammer but that I wholheartedly agree!)

I think this archive has strict rules to keep quality up. I know I've read at all sorts of archives but this is my homebase. Why leave what is obviously the very best?

*Smooches to the Cabal for all your hard work!*

jandjsalmon @ Dec 07, 2006 03:14 pm

I would like to say that I appreciate the Cabal and all the work they do. I know that stupid mistakes get past myself and my beta, but the Cabal just politely points them out and asks me to fix them.

Thank you to the Cabal and Happy Holidays,

Christine

CCC @ Dec 07, 2006 04:10 pm

Cute! :)

WolfStar @ Dec 08, 2006 05:57 am

I agree with dgobsessed. You don't realize how much, well, better this site is to the others until you stay here awhile and then read fic somewhere else. I have a hard time reading fics with horrendous grammar. Many stories I've seen else where are completely incoherent. I would just like to take this time to thank the cabal for all their hard work. Even though I have gotten frustrated when I've been rejected for mistakes neither I nor my beta caught, I do appreciate that they don't accept something mistake-ridden. I too appreciate the comments left telling me why I've been rejected and what I need to fix. It's quite helpful, and it helps me improve as a writer.

That all said, a death penalty for idiot spammers? Where do I go to sign that petition? :)

CharmedLife19 @ Dec 08, 2006 08:33 am

The part about being able to delete anonymous reviews just curious would it be possible to be able to delte all reviews whether anonymous or signed? Not being mean or anything because of course signed members wouldn't think about spamming but I have one review that has come up 3 or 4 times and it would be easier to get through reviews if I could delete a few so I just have one since they all qoute the entire story... This isn't too important just being a nosy person ^_^ hehe

Aphrodite @ Dec 08, 2006 09:55 am

One thing I love about this site is how personal it is... I also post at fanfiction.net (though I rarely read there anymore--this site has upped my standards!), but of course there is never any direct communication between the people who run the site and the writers. Anyway, just thought I'd mention how much I love the involvement and sense of community that I find here! :)

search4inspiration @ Dec 08, 2006 01:27 pm

Aphrodite, I went and fixed those reviews for you. I'm debating over whether or not to let authors delete reviews in general. I'll let y'all know if I decide in favor.

search4inspiration - Thanks. :) I try to make it clear that I'm available to any of our almost 7,000 members if there are questions or problems (although if the help file gets read first, I about widdle myself with joy).

Everyone else, thanks for your kind words - it's always nice to be appreciated.

Mynuet @ Dec 08, 2006 01:39 pm

I agree with dgobsessed and CharmedLife19. I have gone on numerous other sites and have looked at two or three chapters and left the site completely. I always depend on this site for my DG craving fixes! Thank you, Cabel for all the hard work. You all do an amazing job. Good job to the fabulous authors as well. :D

thymeless @ Dec 08, 2006 03:34 pm

Who would doubt this site for nothing BUT the best of D/G all around? Well, the name is dracoandginny.com. Fabulous work to all the Cabal who work hard to correct spelling and grammar in stories, as well as to all the authors on this site! Happy holidays, all.

Lyrielle @ Dec 09, 2006 03:13 pm

When I submitted my first (and so far only) story I was terrified that I wouldn't meet the standards! I never did write an email to the cabal member that approved my story, she (?) said some awfully nice things to me, but I didn't want to waste her time with a letter, I never can figure out what to do in situations like this. Anyways, thank you to all of our lovely cabal memebers and especially to the one who approved my story, I'll try and remember what you said about commas.

braidedsilver @ Dec 09, 2006 03:37 pm

Ok, I think I know what's going on here, but I'm just going to ask out loud. Is this about me? lol Because I know my chapter two was rejected twice and I explained that I had a beta reader who didn't catch the mistakes and I apologized for it. I'm just wondering, and if it is me, I'm not embarrassed. heh.

Dracos_brat @ Dec 09, 2006 05:54 pm

Thanks for fixing the reviews =)

Aphrodite @ Dec 10, 2006 09:20 am

If not for the Cabal, I'd have chapters up with horrendous mistakes not to mention something that would make a lousy read. Kudos to you guys, you help not hinder and it is very much appreciated.

Maybe there should be a Cabal appreciation day or something?

Calin @ Dec 13, 2006 04:47 pm

Hmm, I agree that there should be standards. One should always attempt to improve on their grammar and spelling and to improve on their work in general. However, one should never forget that different cultures and different countries have varying standards or definitions of what constitutes proper grammar. For literature is subjective and interpretative, and we all use different styles (whether that be syntax or punctuation). Take Rowling, for example. She doesn't strictly adhere to proper grammar or punctuation in her writings, yet we all love her character development and plot. No one here is an expert in grammar, syntax and punctuation (many apologies if one of you is - I'm sure your superior intellect can forgive the ignorance of my assumption). This is not meant as an attack in any way, nor is it an act of sullen child whose fiction was rejected. I just find it amusing that when one raises their standards, this "improvement" is not tempered with a degree of restraint. Insisting on perfection (or close to it) while degrading those who cannot achieve one's expectations makes one an intellectual snob. Dismissing excellent content and character development based on a few typos is nothing short of being pretentious. I am not saying that there should not be high standards on this site. In fact, this is a privately run site and if an author wishes to submit work, they must adhere to the rules of the domain/site owner. If that work does not get accepted, suffer no delusions that it is not rejected solely according to the caprice of the owners/cabal staff. Higher standards of grammar and spelling I'm sure are a part of it, but let's not disregard personal opinion. One can just not like the story, the characters, the direction that the story is taking. Those issues, however, are not standards, but biases. We're human; we're fallible – it is expected and not something to be easily condemned. We like what we like; we hate what we hate. To emphasize, this is not an attack on the OP, although perhaps it may seem it. It's more so a response to the “waving of pitchforks� that often follows such posts. I have no problem with any of the Cabal staff nor any of the reviewers. I'm just giving a little warning of the territory that some of you may be creeping towards or already infiltrated: intellectual snobbery. It seems as though this "standards" issue has crossed the line into degrading others and even other domains. Yes, many of you I can see do not like fanfiction.net, but I have found many amazing stories on that site, even though some have a lot of spelling and grammar mistakes. I look beyond it for the content. A good story is a good story. I mean, if your standards are as high as you think they are, I'd suggest to stop reading fanfiction altogether; stop reading Rowling and return to the classics. Perhaps read Tolstoy instead. However, to appreciate his grammar I'd suggest learning Russian and read the non-translated version. Oh, he is grammatically correct to be sure, but some found War and Peace to be a real yawner...but grammatically correct. ;)

Incognito @ Dec 19, 2006 03:25 pm

Oh yes, and I'm quite aware that I most likely made a few grammar mistakes since I tend to just ramble on when I type and often don't look over what I type before I submit it. Already I see one mistake...
"if an author wishes to submit work, [they] must" ... "they" should be replaced with "s/he" (it's so colloquial it's almost cute...)

THAT'S IT! Off to fanfiction I go! I'm a horrible writer! lol

Incognito @ Dec 19, 2006 03:35 pm

I tried to delete an anonymous review on one of my fics and it said that I'm not authorized to access this function. Anyone know what's up with that?

Extreme Dancer @ Dec 22, 2006 06:01 am

First off: Extreme Dancer, you should be able to delete those reviews. I don't know why it isn't working for you, but if you email me a link to the chapter, I can do it for you.
Incognito: You make some very good points. I've done quite a bit of beta-reading, and something that can be very difficult is trying not to change an author's style. It's also something that I try to keep aware of as I read fics in the queue, because as you seem to know, SPaG is not just one strict set of rules.
I feel I have to defend one part of your post, though: "If that work does not get accepted, suffer no delusions that it is not rejected solely according to the caprice of the owners/cabal staff." I've only been with the Cabal since August, but in that time I have never seen a otherwise okay fic be rejected because of content (it's even rule fourteen). Sometimes, we might question how much D/G content is actually going to be in it, but in all the cases I've seen a dialog has been opened to find that out from the author.
Which brings us to the real point of Mynuet's post. For every fic that is accepted, there are many that aren't - and in many cases people haven't even bothered to read the rules. They are clearly laid out, so when someone doesn't even spell Zabini or Ginevra correctly, it can be quite exasperating. There have been cases (recently, too), where an angry author has replied to a Cabal member with horribly rude, crass, abusing emails. With just such an incident fresh in mind, it was quite refreshing to see someone (the unnamed girl in the post) that was being polite and asking us how to improve. So is there bias? Of course, we're only human. I am more willing to help someone who is kind, versus someone who is not. I don't feel like we're demanding absolute perfection, and I know the Cabal can be quite intimidating (as it was to me before I became a part of it), but we're not just sitting in some ivory tower rejecting fics on a whim. We're authors and members of this community too, and I hope that everyone realizes that we are more than willing to help everyone improve.

Lyndsie @ Dec 26, 2006 08:02 am

Incognito: Please clarify for me whether you actually intended to imply that I'm capricious and degrade people for being imperfect, and that I'm pretentious and an intellectual snob. It really seems as if that's what you're doing, but I'd prefer to give you a chance to explain before I respond.

PS - You can space out paragraphs on the comments here by using the br tag.

Mynuet @ Dec 27, 2006 07:40 pm

Haha, yeah, I only put the one instead of two, so the text is broken up but there's no space. 3.0 does it automatically! Wee.

Lyndsie @ Dec 28, 2006 08:10 am

Myunet: I apologise for any insult you might have perceived from my post, but I would like to clarify from the beginning that I never once called you nor a single member of the Cabal staff nor the readers here pretentious or an intellectual snob. I made it a point to say that I was not passing judgment on anyone but merely offering a warning to all not tread into that particular territory. Whether it's heeded or not or dismissed entirely on grounds that you believe me to be talking out of my ass, I just wanted to make a passing observation.
I did not single out your actions for I do not know what your specific actions are and quite frankly, not meaning to be rude but just to be blunt, I don't care. It was merely an observation. With as much care as I put into stating all of this I do not see why I have to clarify. I am not meaning for this to sound rude or defensive (not to repeat myself and have my words lose all meaning), I just don't see the need to restate what I have said because I do believe I was fairly clear on it. I suspect that perhaps my post was read while you were on the defensive. The post after mine took the time to defend part of my "accusation" (no worries, I took no offense and applaud you for taking the time and care to debate what I said properly and civilly). Read as such I would believe what I wrote to be an accusation as well and would stand on the defensive.
But, again, it was never meant as such and I'm sorry it read that way. It was a general comment on how I see these posts about Wall of Shame etc tend to pan out. They start off with you justifiably angry, but then they immediately turn into a forum for bad-mouthing sites like fanfiction.net and calling for the heads of people who use Virginia instead of Genevra or who make common grammatical errors and the like. It is amusing of sorts, especially since this is fanfiction and the Internet.
If this is not a sufficient enough reply, feel free to flame or rebut or ban me from the site. It is your site, your rules. I will take no offense and wage no personal war. I feel my post may have ... bruised a few egos or hurt a few feelings; it was never my intent. My goal was only to make it aware that I saw some of these posts generating something that I, personally, did not particularly like. It is my opinion, and I'm aware I can be totally alone on this.
Lyndsie: I'm sorry if I didn't seem to express myself correctly enough. I did not mean caprice in a negative sense. I mean that the staff will often choose what they like best or reject what they don't like, rules applying. As I said before, I am not defending those whose fiction doesn't make it or who don't adhere to the rules.
Again, I am not defending or attacking anyone, just opening a few eyes and ruffling a few feathers. :)
Happy Holidays!

Incognito @ Dec 28, 2006 09:54 pm

On my archive, with the rules I set up and that I make sure are enforced, I tend to take it as a personal affront when someone says, "Insisting on perfection (or close to it) while degrading those who cannot achieve one's expectations makes one an intellectual snob. Dismissing excellent content and character development based on a few typos is nothing short of being pretentious." Since I'm the one who is insisting on the near-perfect grammar and the dismissal of fics that have more than our accepted level of typos regardless of the quality of the fic, and I'm the one who puts people up for public ridicule when they've gone well beyond the pale in terms of trying to get away with breaking the rules and/or being rude to the Cabal, I'm not sure who else you could be talking about, for all that you insist that you're speaking generally.

And then there was this bit, "If that work does not get accepted, suffer no delusions that it is not rejected solely according to the caprice of the owners/cabal staff." and "I mean that the staff will often choose what they like best or reject what they don't like, rules applying."
This is where you offended me deeply. There is some utter CRAP on this archive that I wouldn't use to line a birdcage, but because the authors took the time to make it conform to our clearly stated rules, it was accepted. I just double-checked and yes, "fewer than one mistake per three hundred words" is in the submission rules that you see before uploading a story. If an author can't or won't meet that standard, they won't be accepted, no matter how great their story. If an author does meet that standard, then the only way they won't be accepted is if their story is truly, truly awful - which has happened all of three times in the archive's history - or if the story is not D/G. And if the story is not D/G, I usually talk to the author about whether they're building up to it. In short: Caprice? We work DAMN hard to be fair, and I resent like hell your implication that we're some sort of "mean girl" clique.

"I made it a point to say that I was not passing judgment on anyone but merely offering a warning to all not tread into that particular territory." How very kind of you. And by "kind" I mean "rude, condescending, and presumptuous."

"I suspect that perhaps my post was read while you were on the defensive." No, but it sure as hell didn't take long for me to go on the offensive. Insulting the hard-working ladies of the Cabal is definitely a shortcut to the wrong side of my temper.

"They start off with you justifiably angry, but then they immediately turn into a forum for bad-mouthing sites like fanfiction.net and calling for the heads of people who use Virginia instead of Genevra or who make common grammatical errors and the like." Was this the point you were trying to make? Because I don't disagree, although I do my fair share of bad-mouthing ffn (The Pit!), and sneering at people who haven't caught on yet that Ginny's full name is Ginevra (which is in the submission rules, even)... And more than my fair share at wondering how someone can manage to reach the age to write smutty stories without having mastered the use of the common period.

"I feel my post may have ... bruised a few egos or hurt a few feelings" My ego and feelings are both unscathed, although my temper got a bit of a workout.

"If this is not a sufficient enough reply, feel free to flame or rebut or ban me from the site." I'll take rebut. I'm nowhere near angry enough to actually flame, and I don't ban people just because they piss me off.

"just opening a few eyes and ruffling a few feathers. :)" Well, you're half right.

Mynuet @ Dec 29, 2006 03:26 pm

I'm afraid that it's that lovely hour known as "pet peeve time."

There is no excuse for anyone not double-spacing paragraphs, particularly when it has been pointed out to him/her. This is not a capricious rule based on intellectual snobbery, nor even on an appreciation of good SPAG. For those of us who have ADHD, learning disabilities, and visual disabilities-- and I, for one, have ALL THREE-- unspaced paragraphs are a special little nightmare to read.

Is there anyone here who would slam doors in the faces of people in wheelchairs? No? Then for the love of God, people, SPACE YOUR PARAGRAPHS.

Anise @ Dec 29, 2006 05:57 pm

Respecting convention as well as context when writing is something we learn very young in school. Why would anyone think that we should not respect both? No one here is demanding perfection – not at all – but an error ratio of one mistake per 300 words and content of D/G are expectations that I believe most would view as reasonable. There is no “intellectual snobbery� involved in these expectations, especially when the Cabal goes above and beyond to help people with their SPAG mistakes. I take fanfiction with a grain of salt and wouldn’t even claim my fanfiction as anything but silly creations for amusement; however, what I do take seriously is education and writing plagued with illiteracies. You’d be surprised, Incognito, by what actually gets submitted to the archive, and how very disheartening it can be.

When this archive was not yet launched, one of the goals was to establish a place that encourages writing, which meant not having such high expectations that people would turn away discouraged before they even started. After a lot of work and discussion, a place for our “ship� was created with minimal standards, but standards nonetheless. I’ll go out on a limb and say I believe most of our members appreciate these standards. I am pretty far from being a snob, but I see nothing wrong with establishing standards and asking each of us to raise the bar on what we produce. As far as I’m aware, complacency has never been a recipe for success.

The message Myn was putting across is how much we appreciate those who are cordial while in the process of learning (we’re all in process of learning – it’s just that some don’t seem to realize it). The cause of the elevated frustration levels for the Cabal is the folks who are offensive and think they don’t need to learn a thing. I am not one to participate in flaming or “waving of pitchforks� and if that’s your point, why the need for the rest of your diatribe? I’d say the faux pas here is your assumption, not to mention your duplicity.

For the record, you didn't ruffle any feathers here, rather I'm speaking out because I don't believe your altruistic claims.

Gianfared @ Dec 31, 2006 07:13 am

Also, there's one more thing that Mynuet refrained from pointing out, although she could have: in the very rare cases where fics have been rejected on content, it wasn't because they were written badly, or a Cabal member "didn't like them." In every case that I can remember, it was because they were offensive rapefics.

Rape is a subject that needs to be treated very carefully. I'm not saying that it should never be used in a fic. I'd be a hypocrite if I said that, because one of my own fics (Unforgiven) does indeed begin with Draco raping Ginny. But it's a question of how the subject is treated.

The very few fics we rejected tended to go a lot like this: Draco viciously rapes Ginny. As she whimpers with pain on the floor, he laughs down in her face and stalks off, being Teh Ebil Malfoy that he is. The next morning, he feels a pang of regret. She realizes that she loves him eternally, and she magically redeems him. They have a happy future with lots of pink-haired babies.

So even in the extremely rare cases of rejection for content, this has been the reason why.

Anise @ Jan 01, 2007 05:23 am