Name: chenlina reviewed Fourth on Jul 12, 2017 05:30 pm
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chenlina20170713
Name: xNymphadoraX reviewed Fourth on May 31, 2006 11:08 pm
May I just say, that I am amazed by the amount of contemplation, time and dedication you obviously put into this. I have immense respect for you. That said- grading reviews? Come on. I know people can get ignorant and cruel, but that's no reason to indulge their nonsense.

Now- I will say that a lot of the evidence here is thought provoking, if not convincing, also, a lot is not. But that is not why I am yet to be sold on this theory. The reason is, we are about to go into book 7, the book which will end the series, which will see the final battle. This is a very very important time. I think JKR has been trying to show us all along, the power and the strength of the Trio's friendship. She said herself that they are stronger together than they are apart. Every time Harry finds himself in a tight situation (going after the PS, fighting at the department of mysteries, etc.), his two best mates are by his side or at least helping him in some pivotal way and I don't think this is any coincidence.

Now Harry could easily have told them (as he told Ginny) that he did not want them in harms way and that they should distance themselves from him. But he didn't, they are coming with him! That said, I cannot accept that at this very crucial time, when he will be faced with the most important battle of his life, that JKR would create such a chasm between him and Hermione (as the love potion theory is sure to do).

Don't get me wrong, a lot of what you have presented here (and you have presented a lot!) makes a lot of sense and is very plausible, but the fact is this would kill, absolutely kill Harry and Hermione's friendship and every bone in my body knows they'll be standing beside him when he kills LV. Then he's going to run back into Ginny's arms and continue their unbelievable, horribly written relationship.
Name: Sanne reviewed Fourth on Jan 11, 2006 07:36 pm
BRILLIANT! I just spent an hour reading and rereading the essay, et al., and though I'm not sure this is the route JK Rowling will take, she ought to! H/G was otherwise inexplicable in the books...! I know you two aren't pushing H/Hr as I am, but even if Harry and Hermione are just friends and Harry ends up falling for Luna, for instance, I'd be happy just to have an explanation for the HP Lovefest debacle.
Name: Joseph Paul reviewed Fourth on Dec 09, 2005 08:21 pm
Yes, Creamtea's establishment of Hermione's motivation was really well done. It is only that JK Rowling never introduced us to a theory of combo-dosage before, so I guess the 'technicalities' of it will be difficult to tackle. What we all know is that Creamtea, through her series of essays, showed canonical evidence (hard for us, even for H/G shippers, not to consider) supporting the LP Theory. The evidences that Creamtea showed could have been EASILY avoided by JK Rowling even if she was the least bit careful, thus the LP Theory would not have come to life and making Harry and Ginny's relationship (people who are ideal and worthy of each other) look a lot better. Just to tell you, I was a H/G shipper since Book2 and all that changed after reading the way Harry and Ginny's relationship was written with all that monster-clawing descriptions, etc. and worse, at a time when the theme of love potions was in full-force. I strongly believe that JKR could have written better romance than that if she wanted to do so. She wrote Harry/Cho, a ship that she intended to sink, really well (to a point that I even liked the couple) so I expected a lot better from H/G, which of course, for a lot of us, did not get.
Name: creamtea reviewed Fourth on Dec 08, 2005 10:45 pm
Thank you Joseph Paul. Very true about the comfort thing not necesarilly equaling romantic love (or indeed, any other type of love). I get a great deal of comfort from a particular pair of slippers - but I'm not going to marry them. In any case the main thrust of the essay was about Hermione's motivation - and I am very happy with that. The reason I dragged in the Draught of Peace (I actually just tacked that section on the end) was because Harry’s crash out That Night fits so beautifully with the in-depth description of the DoP which JKR chooses to give us. IMO she wouldn't give that factor to us if it wasn't coming up somewhere, and that's where I think it came up. Plus, for me, it tied the Vase of Flowers and specifically ‘the flowery smell’ tightly into events – tied in by an unwitting combined usage in the same time-frame on the same person. Flowery smell = ‘love’ = Ginny, all messed up together. Exactly how this stuff works we do not know – we aren’t exactly given a chemistry lesson on it in the books. I just see a pattern of cause and effect. I’m really not that bothered/ bogged down by the chemical mechanics of how the potion(s) kicked in as JKR isn’t bothered either. She doesn’t bother to tell us how the LPs actually work even when she gives us absolute incidences of them being used. She just concentrates (in the Merope and Romilda cases) on general cause (substance given) and then shows you the physical, psychological and narrative effects of the particular potions used there. Those last aspects are what interest her. Well, with Harry we’ve seen the physical effect, if I’m right I expect Book 7 to reveal the psychological and narrative consequences.
Name: Joseph Paul reviewed Fourth on Dec 08, 2005 05:36 am
Thanks for your reply Creamtea! However, it is still the flowery scent from the Burrow that Harry smells in the Amortentia, not anything about the Puking Pastille. I feel that the probable explanation connecting the Puking Pastille to the Flowers (i.e. Draught of Peace) to Ginny to the Amortentia will be very complicated. I see what you are trying to get to, but I think that the combo-dosage of LP+Draught of Peace is too complex in a way that it will take JK Rowling quite a number of pages just to explain that, especially to the people who did not read your essays (who will be in for a shock if this happens). There is a saying that the simplest solution to a problem is usually (though I would admit not always) the right one. I do not think that we should be bothered much by Ginny being Harry's greatest source of comfort in Book 6. If I remember Book 5 correctly, Luna was a source of comfort (probably at that time the greatest) for Harry after Sirius died, and yet he does not 'love' (allow me to use the 'L' word loosely) Luna in the same way he felt for Cho and especially the one he felt for Ginny (which in the theory was effected by Hermione's dosing). It does not always mean that if that person is your greatest source of comfort, that girl/guy is your true love.
Name: creamtea reviewed Fourth on Dec 07, 2005 10:55 pm
Just looked at my reply to Joseph Paul: and nope, I still haven’t explained it to my satisfaction. So, if you read the below and add the following … in short, it’s this: Harry was being chemically pushed to fancy Ginny That Night, whilst also eased and soothed in an independent action. I think that the two effects mingled so that not only does he relate Ginny with lust, but also with comfort, which is now associated with ‘a flowery smell at the Burrow’. Ginny, lust, comfort and the flowery smell, are now all part and parcel.
Name: creamtea reviewed Fourth on Dec 07, 2005 10:33 pm
Thank you JOSEPH PAUL, (see I CAN play nice - with other nice children. You want me to be nice to you, be nice to me, it's a simple enough equation.) Ahem, anyway. Your point re the Draught of Peace and the Vase of Flowers and the Love Potion. What I was hoping to convey (obviously I didn't do very well) was that it's possible that TWO potions - put there by potentialy two separate people, operating off completely different motivations, and each unknown to the other - could have hit Harry with a double whammy: bodged-up Love Potion (the Pastille, bodged by lack of practice: Hermione) and bodged-up Draught (Molly's cack-handed effort). I think that the Vase Of Flowers DoP does not contradict the LP connection, as Harry was being affected all night by LP, simultaneously as by the Draught. I think the Vase/Draught strengthens the theory as it explains something that needs explaining: Harry sees Ginny as a source of comfort. I think the comfort part is explained by the Draught. The Draught soothes and eases, it brings comfort - the word we later associate with Ginny. Harry was being chemically pushed to fancy Ginny That Night, whilst also eased and soothed in an independent action. I think that the two effects mingled so that not only does he relate Ginny with lust, but also with comfort. I think that in HBP we only see the word comfort twice: once relating to Sirius prior to That Night, and then at the end with Ginny. I think that's a meta-text clue to the dosing efforts switching the comfort-effect from Sirius to Ginny. We have the word 'comfort' rammed at us in relation to Ginny, we have to make sense of it. Slightly unrelated: The Draught of Peace is given a huge spotlit entrance - it must be a plot point - the reason it connected with me is that we are TOLD that when you mix it incorrectly it plunges the person into a deep sleep. It twigged with me because Harry's plunge into an ABRUPT sleep That Night is, I think, pretty much the only one we're given, and even if it isn't the only one, the connection is definitely there.
Name: Joseph Paul reviewed Fourth on Dec 07, 2005 05:48 pm
I think that Creamtea, with this essay, was able to address the weakest point of the previous three. How could Hermione do such a thing to Harry, dosing him with a love potion? This act seems to be beneath her, too OOC. By connecting the events in Order of the Phoenix to that in Half-Blood Prince, Creamtea was able to explain in a logical manner why Hermione would have done what the theory states that she did. This essay would even give partial justice (though of course dosing someone with love potion is still not right) to Hermione’s actions. We have to remember that even if Hermione was the second best fighter next to Harry in that DA sextet, she was probably the one closest to dying (by that spell of Antonin Dolohov, whatever that was). She had every incentive, backed up with awful experience, to prevent that from happening to her friends and herself as well. To cut things short, Creamtea was able to make Hermione’s (theorized) action of dosing Harry with a love potion more “in-character”. Creamtea makes us see Hermione (consistent to that in canon) as someone who wants to be in control, someone who ‘tweaks’ circumstances, highly intelligent but emotionally weak, but more importantly someone who would probably do ‘anything’ to protect her friends. Coupled with the fact that (JK Rowling herself states) Ginny is the ideal and worthy girl for Harry, the thought of dosing the latter with love potion is something in which the pros outweigh the cons. I only find one thing problematic with the essay though. There was a line that states “I think badly/strongly brewed Draught of Peace was in the vase of flowers – brewed up by Molly probably as a ‘harmless’ sedative for Harry to comfort him – if Hermione had done it she would have brewed it correctly”. We would later find out in Book 6(Chapter: The Half-Blood Prince) that one of the scents Harry noticed in Amortentia was a flowery scent he might have smelled at the Burrow. The connection between the perfume of the flower in Fred and George’s room, Hermione’s scrutiny of Harry (both in the chapter ‘An Excess of Phlegm’) and to that scene in Professor Slughorn’s class when Harry smelled Amortentia is probably the most ‘concrete’ evidence of Creamtea’s Love Potion Theory. If that flowery scent at the burrow was actually Draught of Peace, then this evidence of the Love Potion Theory was contradicted, since the flowers should have had something to do with being a love potion. Hope Creamtea can enlighten me regarding this. Besides that, it was again a brilliant essay (all four were). Sorry if my review was kind of long. Thanks!
Name: Anise reviewed Fourth on Dec 07, 2005 05:37 am
But thanks for your review, Hineoma! :) All thoughts are appreciated. (We're kind of like Paula and Simon on American Idol, you see, except that I'm sure Creamtea has better hair...) I agree that the main point is what Hermione herself perceived rather than what Harry was actually experiencing, but I also hope to see someone tackle the "happier than he could ever remember being" issue.
Name: creamtea reviewed Fourth on Dec 06, 2005 09:58 pm
Nope. You've missed the point. As I said in the essay it wasn't a case that Harry needed to be controlled BUT that Hermione THOUGHT he did and she didn't waste any time in finding out the truth at the start of HBP. As I say all the way through the essay, Harry is in control of his grief, we know that, but Hermione doesn't, but she's the one doing the potioning. Was Hermione in the broom-shed with Hary and Dumbledore? No. So did she know Harry had a lock on it? No. All she knows is that he went ape last year, and she doesn't want that twice. God, I really wish people would READ the essays rather than just looking at the words in them. Bored already. Out.
Name: Hinoema reviewed Fourth on Dec 06, 2005 04:35 pm
Interesting, but I see a big problem. Sirius died very shortly before the end of the school year. Harry grieved at teh lake briefly, then went back to PD almost immediately afterward. He does not see Hermione until the next year is about to start. Importantly, in the third chapter, he is already shown ans being in control of his grief. "But while I was at the Dursley's'..." interrrupted Harry, his voice growing stronger, "I realized I can't shut myself away or- or crack up. Sirius wouldn't have wanted that, would he?" He goes n to explain that now he realizes that fighting for Sirius' memory is far more important than indulging himself in grief. He already has his mind set that Sirius would not want him lost in grief and will better serve his memory by vowing "I'll make sure I take as many death eaters with me as I can, and Voldemort, too, if I can manage it." All this happens before he meets Ron and Hermione. So, unless Hermione was 'controlling his moods' (an insult to both characters) at Privet Drive, it doesn't even remotely float. He had his attitude on that subject quite well defined before the year even began.
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